Bosch 360 Plywood Build

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Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:11 pm

I just joined the forum, but I thought I would take a moment to share my progress on my 360 gallon plywood tank build. Please be patient as this will take some time to complete. I currently have an in-wall 75 gallon tank that I plan to replace with this new 360. I don't typically post on forums, so I'll see if I can figure out how to post some cell phone pics.

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Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:21 pm

More Pics!

Image

Over flow added: Image

Side view: Image

I ripped 2x4's to a 45* angle and screwed and glued them into all corners: Image

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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:34 pm

3/4" Oak cabinent grade plywood from Menards. I think it was either 11 or 13 ply. Pilot holes were drilled every 2 inches. PL Premium adhesive was used in addition to the deck screws. If you have never used it, that PL Premium bond is stonger than the wood itself... but I will not be counting on the screws or glue for the strength of the tank. That part is comig later.

The final dimensions of the tank (not counting the overflow) are: 80" wide x 36" deep x 32" tall. Using those dimensions, the tank comes out to 400 gallons, but taking into account the thickness of the plywood, it is closer to 360.
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Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:40 pm

Image

Here is the euro bracing. It is cut out of one solid piece of plywood. The area with the clamps is the front. I have added an extra piece of plywood on the from to stengthen the tank and minimize bowing.
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:44 pm

Image

You can start to get some scale now that I have it in my lower level. I could not attach the top until it was in my house, or it would not fit through the sliding walkout door.

Why do I have it propped up like that?
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby iced98lx » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:57 pm

ooh i hope we get to see the epoxing pictures since you have it on angle like that!
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:20 pm

iced98lx wrote:ooh i hope we get to see the epoxing pictures since you have it on angle like that!


Stay tuned!
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Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby SoDak » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:23 pm

Pretty cool
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:42 pm

These are not in any order, but here are some more pics. All corners were epoxied with 3 layers of fiberglass. This wets out so well and you can hardly see the weave.
Image

I ordered the epoxy from USComposites. They have great epoxy at an even greater price. I got the slow hardener since it is 100% non-blushing. I didn't want to deal with the blush. The only negative is that it takes a while to cure at room temp. I try to keep it at least 68-70 in the basement, so it takes a good 24 hours before I can "flip" the tank or add another layer. It would take FOREVER to cure in the garage in the winter!

10 oz cloth on all internal plywood to give strength to the epoxy
Image

Top is on. I also added and extra piece of plywood on the center cross brace for strength. Fiberglass on all sides of the cross brace. It is about 4 inches wide and very rigid. I thought about skipping the top brace and using a threaded rod to minimize lighting issues. I could still cut it out. Thoughts? Image

Tank is upside down on saw horses. Pouring a layer of epoxy with black pigment. It looks better than I ever would have thought! I compare it to "piano finish".
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Epoxy on the fiberglass cloth
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:49 pm

Thanks guys. I'll try to keep you updated. There are 18 different angles I need to set this up on, so it's taking a while... I used 3 gallons of epoxy already, and had to order some more. A man in a brown truck dopped off another 1.5 gallons today so I poured another coat. I can't thank my wife enough for helping me "flip" the tank as we call it. She was 8 months pregnant when we started and just gave birth to our healthy boy on Chistmas day!

No, she did NOT do any heavy lifting. But I did need someone to move my 45* angle rigs while I lifted the tank. This thing is getting heavier every day.
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby cdness » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:56 pm

This looks great! Can't wait to see it wet and salty ;)
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:57 pm

View from the back and the external overflow box
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Front top view

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Bottom

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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:01 am

cdness wrote:This looks great! Can't wait to see it wet and salty ;)


Thanks! Me either. I'm on a strict budget, so will be asking for some ideas later to save some $$$. Hence the reason I am building my own tank... I love DIY, so I will build everything by myself if possible. And to save money of course!
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:09 am

More epoxy poured. It is a very tedious job to pour this without it running down the sides. It is common to use a torch to heat the epoxy once it is poured to release air bubbles. I have a torch and a heat gun, but I much prefer to use the heat gun. I have so much more control and is is easier to see the bubble "popping" to the surface.

Image

Overflow view
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Image

Image

That's about all the pics I have for now.
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:20 am

I found a tank bulkhead fitting at Campbell's Supply. It's a 3 inch bulkhead and I think it's glass reinforced ABS (better than typical fittings and super heavy duty). It was cheap and cost less than $30. They also have smaller ones for a good price too if anyone is looking for bulkhead fittings. I hate having to buy those things online! Gotta love tractor supply stores!

Do you see any reason to not use this large of a bulkhead fitting? It should handle quite a bit more flow than 2 2-inch fittings, so I think this will work well. I plan to take my Reeflo Dart out of retirement, so I may see quite a bit of flow though the sump. I'd also like to implement a surge device, or 3.....
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:36 am

Here's the bulkhead. I picked up some 3/4 inch ones too for who-knows-what.

Image

Image
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby black hills tj » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:36 am

Thats a monster.
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Tangdiver » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:45 am

Very nice build, you gonna do acrylic or glass.....keep it coming
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby spartman » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:20 am

NICE TANK!!!

How are you dealing with the fumes from the epoxy?

Im looking at building my own tank as well, but I was thinking of building some 2x4 "walls" to hold the plywood stiff.

Found the idea on another forum and it makes the tank solid as a rock, and about as heavy as one too.
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:35 pm

Tangdiver wrote:Very nice build, you gonna do acrylic or glass.....keep it coming


I will be using glass for 2 reasons. It will need to be siliconed in place, so that won't work with acrylic. I'm sure I could find something to bond both acrylic and epoxy, but I don't want to mess with it. I also want the scratch resistance that glass has over acrylic.
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:45 pm

spartman wrote:NICE TANK!!!

How are you dealing with the fumes from the epoxy?

Im looking at building my own tank as well, but I was thinking of building some 2x4 "walls" to hold the plywood stiff.

Found the idea on another forum and it makes the tank solid as a rock, and about as heavy as one too.


I was woried about the fumes too, but it's not even noticable. Epoxy really isn't toxic like polyester resin. You just need to make sure you keep it off your skin! The fumes can get nasty when you heat it, so I take it easy with the heat gun and keep my bathroom exhaust fans on. This would be better done in a garage, but I can't in this cold weather. My brilliant home builders put dry wall up without insulating the walls!

I thought about framing it up with 2x4's too, but now that I'm almost done, I think that is a waste of time and valuable space. I do think it is very important to use fiberglass though. You will gain more strength from that and the epoxy than the 2x4's will give. Just my opinion... What size were you thinking of building?
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby spartman » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:17 pm

Im planning on a 8x2x2 tank.

I have a stand pretty much built but I need to get it leveled before I go to much further.

Not sure if Im gonna use cement to level it or if I should use wood shims.

Only thing I would have to worry about with fumes is that the room I want to put the tank in is right next to the furnace room. Im afraid if there are to many fumes the furnace will pick em up and make the whole house smell, "pretty"
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SAND

Postby Bosch » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:11 pm

Okay, looking for some help. I think I'd like a deep sand bed of about 4 inches. I don't want bare bottom. I had a deep sand bed before and it seemed to work great in my 55. I like to see all the critters at work in the sand bed. I have also thought about a remote deep sand bed. A 55 gallon barrel would work well cut in half. Any opinions?

Where I can a get some cheap sand? I am pretty sure I will use silica to save $$$$. 4 inches deep will be about 400 pounds. I think it is a myth that silica sand can't be used in a reef, and I'm not worried about diatoms. Are there any places to get white play sand this time of year in the Sioux Falls area? Is there any calcium based play sand to be found in this area? Opinions welcome!
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:23 pm

spartman wrote:Im planning on a 8x2x2 tank.

I have a stand pretty much built but I need to get it leveled before I go to much further.

Not sure if Im gonna use cement to level it or if I should use wood shims.

Only thing I would have to worry about with fumes is that the room I want to put the tank in is right next to the furnace room. Im afraid if there are to many fumes the furnace will pick em up and make the whole house smell, "pretty"


That wil be nice! When thinking about leveling, keep in mind how heavy this thing will be when full. Cement would be the best option.

There really aren't any fumes. If your furnace is working properly, you should have no air from the furnace room being forced into the house. That would be bad. If their is a return intake near where you are epoxying, yes, that will move the scent into the rest of the house. I've done some searching and haven't found anything showing that epoxy fumes are toxic. It's like plastic. If you heat it or melt it, then you get some nasty fumes. Just make sure to keep it off your skin is what I have found. Lots and lots of disposable gloves!
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Re: SAND

Postby cdness » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:58 pm

Bosch wrote:Where I can a get some cheap sand? I am pretty sure I will use silica to save $$$$. 4 inches deep will be about 400 pounds. I think it is a myth that silica sand can't be used in a reef, and I'm not worried about diatoms. Are there any places to get white play sand this time of year in the Sioux Falls area? Is there any calcium based play sand to be found in this area? Opinions welcome!


Opinion here based on prior reading online... Silica sand is detrimental for more than one reason. First off diatoms are fueled with silicates. This is temporary though I believe as once they are consumed you are OK diatom related. Second, the silica sand has sharper edges and is harder than calcium based sand. This can cause two things. Sand dwelling creatures can be injured like gobies. Also if you get some on a magnetic cleaner it can scratch the glass very easily. These are the reasons many people have decided to move to aragonite based sand...

If you had this as a remote sandbed, use the silica sand. In the tank though, highly recommended to go with the aragonite.

Aragonite also provides a small buffering property for tank parameters and PH...
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby mrwillster » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:10 pm

what did you say you were putting in this tank?
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:41 pm

mrwillster wrote:what did you say you were putting in this tank?


I don't have it all figured out but I'd like to have a reef. A had a FOWLR several years ago, but had a catastophe. My sump had a slow leak, and my auto topoff continued to regulate the waterlevel of course. I didn't realize there was a leak until it was too late. By then it was half fresh water.... I broke it all down and put my cichlids in there.

Ok, back to your question. My plan was a 4 inch deep sand bed. Maybe 200 pounds of base rock. I hear good things about the Pukani from Bulk Reef Supply. I have about 50 pounds of dry Marshall rock that I saved. Seed with some live rock. I haven't determined the fish or corals yet...
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Re: SAND

Postby Bosch » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:57 pm

cdness wrote:Opinion here based on prior reading online... Silica sand is detrimental for more than one reason. First off diatoms are fueled with silicates. This is temporary though I believe as once they are consumed you are OK diatom related. Second, the silica sand has sharper edges and is harder than calcium based sand. This can cause two things. Sand dwelling creatures can be injured like gobies. Also if you get some on a magnetic cleaner it can scratch the glass very easily. These are the reasons many people have decided to move to aragonite based sand...

If you had this as a remote sandbed, use the silica sand. In the tank though, highly recommended to go with the aragonite.

Aragonite also provides a small buffering property for tank parameters and PH...


You make good points. I won't disagree with any of them, but I have some thoughts. Quartz sand is more inert than the glass in an aquarium. I'm sure it depends on the sand, but I would think there is sand available that does not have much free silica. I'd have to test some in some RO water to be sure. Diatoms also need nitrate and phospate just like algae. The difference is that they also need silica. There are articles that propose dosing silica as this is needed in a reef.

I think it's a valid point that the edges are sharper. If one was to find sand fine enough, (less than 1 mm on average) I don't think it would be an issue. I really dont want too many sand dwelling creatures that would eat the infauna. That is the key to a successful deep sand bed.

Good point about it scratching the glass. Do you feel aragonite of the same size will scratch less? That might be a good experiment!

It is often advertised that aragonite will help buffer the PH, but I have read several articles that the PH must be below 7 or so before it will actually do anything. I'm not certain if that is accurate or not.

Thanks for your response.
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Saltwater Saloon » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:35 pm

looks good
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Tangdiver » Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:02 am

Man he beat me to it, not silica in a reef tank. Large predator or something like that yes, but reef= never ending diatom blooms. :-(
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby cdness » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:27 am

Bosch wrote:I hear good things about the Pukani from Bulk Reef Supply.


I will not say anything against the pukani rock I bought back many years ago. However I have read recently of people using a lanthium chloride dose to help strip phosphates out of the pukani rock. I did deal with some algae blooms, but I figured it was due to my mistakes as a new reefer. Do a search for Lanthium Chloride and Pukani to see some of the write ups. Maybe they have a different source or things changed in the dry mine... I don't know, but just wanted to let you know.


Bosch wrote:I think it's a valid point that the edges are sharper. If one was to find sand fine enough, (less than 1 mm on average) I don't think it would be an issue. I really dont want too many sand dwelling creatures that would eat the infauna. That is the key to a successful deep sand bed.

Good point about it scratching the glass. Do you feel aragonite of the same size will scratch less? That might be a good experiment!

It is often advertised that aragonite will help buffer the PH, but I have read several articles that the PH must be below 7 or so before it will actually do anything. I'm not certain if that is accurate or not.

Thanks for your response.


I can say aragonite does not scratch glass very easily from personal experience. I have caught it in my mag float and nothing happens to the glass. There was a cheaper sand from Petco that I used to start my tank since it was the cheapest aquarium sand I could find. That did scratch my 75 gallon, pretty bad too. I can't confirm it was silica based, but they sure acted differently.

Aragonite needs a PH of below 7 for it to start to dissolve. Just like a calcium reactor.
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:17 pm

cdness wrote:
Bosch wrote:I hear good things about the Pukani from Bulk Reef Supply.


I will not say anything against the pukani rock I bought back many years ago. However I have read recently of people using a lanthium chloride dose to help strip phosphates out of the pukani rock. I did deal with some algae blooms, but I figured it was due to my mistakes as a new reefer. Do a search for Lanthium Chloride and Pukani to see some of the write ups. Maybe they have a different source or things changed in the dry mine... I don't know, but just wanted to let you know.


I have heard that about the Pukani too. Thanks for the heads up. I planned to cook the rock and remove the phosphates like you mentioned. If not for the phosphates, how would you rate the rock? Would you get it again or look elsewhere? I hear it is so porous that you get more volume per pound than average dry rock.
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Silica sand in a reef

Postby Bosch » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:33 pm

Here are some interesting links you may want to read through. I find them interesting.

http://www.saltcorner.com/Articles/Showarticle.php?articleID=63

http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic79249-11-1.aspx?Highlight=silica

Dr Ron Shimek is considered a or "the" Deep Sand Bed expert. He has some great articles on how to properly maintain a sand bed is anyone is interested. I don't want to turn this into a "silica sand safe or not?" debate, but I feel pretty comfortable with it. I have found more credible sources saying it is safe or even advisable, vs not safe.

I do appreciate the comments and warnings though! I hope you can understand why I am considering alternatives to aragonite. It will cost me an arm-and-a-leg for 400 lbs of sand! I didn't consider the scatching of the glass with a mag float. I've got white play sand in my 75 now, and I do notice the right grain can ruin your tank quickly! ARGHHHH!

I am still undecided. I would prefer aragonite, but I don't know if I can justify the expense. Maybe I should just pony up and order from here: http://www.marcorocks.com/sand.aspx What to do?!!
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Korrine » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:36 pm

I gave my rock an acid bath. It was a fun time...turning me into a mad scientist...hehe

I would get this rock again. Marco rocks are also reported to be good, but I don't have any personal experience with them.
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:24 pm

Thanks Korrine. I hear BRS-Pukani, Marco, and Reefcleaners are all good. Don't you wish you could just go pick it out in person?! Isn't BRS in MN? Do they have a store, or online only?
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby cdness » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:58 pm

I like the BRS rock and would buy it again. The one thing to note is the pukani rock has more open areas and surface area, but I think it is a more solid rock as compared to their reef saver. The inner part of the pukani is very tough. The Reef Saver rock tends to be porus all the way through...

I would do some of each having the reef saver as base and the pukani for structure if it was me. BRS does have a store and they will allow you to pick it up in person. However I don't know if they will let you pick your own rock anymore. I know I did, but that was when they first opened and were a much smaller operation.
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:30 pm

Thanks for the info. Before I decided to build this tank, I turned my 55 gallon into a sump to run on my 75. I haven't used it yet, so it's just sitting. No holes drilled yet.

Now that I will have my 75 available, would you use the 75 for a sump or the 55? Maybe I should make the 75 a refugium?
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Tank Overview: 360g Mixed Reef

Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby jolson » Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:22 am

just saw this looks nice I built a plywood tank a while back but it was only a 40 good luck and I will be watching
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:09 pm

jolson wrote:just saw this looks nice I built a plywood tank a while back but it was only a 40 good luck and I will be watching

Thanks for all the comments guys. How did your tank hold up for ya?
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:10 pm

Image
Image
Getting closer...
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:42 pm

Well I did it again.... I made my overflow too small to fit a 90 PVC elbow. Well, a 3 inch one at least. The overflow is actually pretty huge, but I underestimated the size of 3 inch plumbing! I think 2 inch elbows would fit fine. Question: do I really need the down turned elbow? The over flow is external, so I can make the hole(s) in the back or the bottom. I'm not too worried about noise since its in the wall. What are everyone's opinions?
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby spartman » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:02 am

OOOOHHHHHH SHINY!!!
If your ship doesn't come in, swim out to it." - Jonathan Winters

He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which.
- Douglas Adams
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:26 pm

Image
Tank upside down.
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:43 pm

Thought I'd document some equipment.

Left- 3600 GPH sequence pump. Same as the Reeflo dart when sequence made them.
Right- 4200 GPH sequence pump. 4200 is new. Convinced my dad to get it for his pond but he never installed it. Glad he let me buy it for cheap!
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175 watt ballast. May use for refugium. Thanks Grant!
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One of the reflectors Grant sold me. More thanks.
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55 gallon barrels for RO/DI storage and salt mixing. Free if you know where to find them.
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Will be dual stage DI filters. Had just a horizontal inline DI filter on my RO unit. Seemed worthless and will be using these to get zero TDS. 75 GPD membrane and is working awesome after 3 years of use. Only 3 to 1 waste ratio. TDS is 5 without DI. 272 from the source water. Source water is after water softener.
Image
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:02 pm

Really wanted to go with a single 3 inch overflow drain. (Tim Taylor grunt).

Just too big. The hole would need to be 4.5 inches. Bulkhead fitting is about 6 inches. This shows the 3 inch compared to the 2. Going with the 2 inchers now. Likely do a beanamimal or maybe just 2 drains.
Image
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:05 pm

55 gallon sump I was working on for my 75 gallon cichlid tank. Boy I really got carried away... I'm thinking this may still work well for the 360 plywood reef. 75 would make a nice refugium.
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:27 pm

Messy epoxy station on the bar.
Image

Very happy with USComposites. Highly recommended.
Image
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:32 pm

Some old rock getting bleached. Will leave it in bleach for 3 days or so. More overkill....
Image
Image

Here is some more rock. About 55 lbs of Marshall from my 75 a few years ago. Also sitting in bleach as of tonight.Image

Still need quite a bit more. Will be getting some Pukani.
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby Bosch » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:47 pm

75 in the wall now. Plywood tank is going in the same spot. Maybe a bit higher. Most of the wall will need to come out. I like to frame the wall into the stand. Not going to be much room behind the tank. Will be doing a lot of thinking about how to make some access doors in the front.
ImageImageImageImage
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Re: Bosch 360 Plywood Build

Postby DIZZER » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:02 am

How much easier is it, servicing a tank from the back side? I have always had mine backed up to a wall. Would love to do what you and NatureBoy have done. Just might be possible too!!! When the HVAC guy redid the duct work in our basement he took down the old chimney that was in his way. Busted a bunch of sheetrock on a couple walls. Since that will need replaced anyway... :D
"Good things happen to those who wait" so I'm gonna continue to kick back, put my feet up and wait. Should I happen to get the urge to do otherwise I'll close my eyes and wait for the feeling to pass. :)
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